“I would still choose Tinubu again”

Bishop……

Bishop …………………………………… of ………………………in Warri Delta state, is a unique man of God. He is blunt, politically aware, and socially engaged. At the same time, he presents himself as a man who prefers service over self-promotion, especially in ministry. In this interview he speaks openly about politicians, church growth, development, and the realities of life in Nigeria.

Excerpts:

Question: What do you think is the real motive behind politicians visiting churches?

A: They may say they want to visit, but they only come because of votes during elections. If you asked me about politicians, I have church members who are involved in politics and I can’t stop them — they will do politics whether I tell them not to or not. I won’t take my people to vote in the church; that’s the truth. I can pray for politicians, but I won’t allow them stand in church and shout “Hallelujah, vote for me.” Honestly, they don’t come to strengthen your church.

Q: You have been outspoken about government officials. What drives your criticism?

A: If I criticize them, I do it to encourage development, not for personal reasons. I always tell the truth about development. From what I see, the state government is working; the young man in charge is making efforts. In local government you often see leaders working on roads and school maintenance. I can’t say much about farming areas. Some older people in my community receive very little government support; my own mother is not on any government pension, but some people nearby are, so I try to support my mother from our family when the government doesn’t. That is the reality.

He is working, and my only prayer is that if they come back, they will do even better than before. If they ask me to vote, I would vote again because the candidate you know is better than someone who has not yet proven themselves. Warri is changing today; the place has improved. If someone was poor yesterday and rich today, I would be surprised.

About the presidency, I’ll be honest: if people say Tinubu is not the best choice, I would still choose Tinubu again. I think southern presidents should be allowed to finish eight years. When Jonathan left early, it affected politics later. Buhari completed his eight years. Now Tinubu is president; people criticize him, but I believe the southerner should finish his term. If a northerner gets a turn later, they should also complete eight years unless a clearly better candidate appears. If Atiku or El-Rufai run, I wouldn’t vote for them now; it’s the south’s turn. I believe Nigerians regretted how Jonathan was removed, and political decisions have consequences.

About Tinubu: some say he developed Lagos, but I don’t see enough improvement in electricity or basic services. He removed the fuel subsidy — only the government really understands the full effect — but I would still vote for him because I feel I have no better choice. Removing the subsidy was meant to improve things like electricity so graduates could find employment, but that change hasn’t fully happened.

Recently I told the church that market women who run small businesses often earn more than many teachers or school principals. Some market traders handle millions of naira. Most government school teachers earn little and many are also traders. If people pay large sums to get teaching jobs, that money is wasted — starting a business or farming can be more profitable. Farming, trading, or fishing can pay well if you are patient; you don’t plant and harvest the same day. If you want to be wealthy, entrepreneurship is more likely than being an employee.

Q: You are truly a reporter’s delight. How did you begin?

A: The ministry?

Q: Yes, let’s start with your educational background.

A: After I finished secondary school, I had a strong zeal for God and for ministry. I entered ministry very early, around 1995 to 1996, and by 1996 to 1997 I was already fully involved. When I was supposed to move on to higher education, I chose ministry because of the revelation I had from God.

To prepare myself, I attended ministry training and earned a diploma in theology, a master’s in theology, and several certificates from Bible college. I also attended several leadership trainings.

In 1998, while I was doing a three-day fast, God told me to go and serve His servant, Israel Jackson. That was in May 1998. I was not the owner of the church. I only heard God say, “Go and serve him.” After the fasting, I found the church. At that time, they were meeting under a hostel in a warehouse. I did not even see him for about three months because he was on his farm and not in church, but I stayed and served faithfully because of what God told me.

I never told him for many years, because I did not want it to look like I was serving for reward. At that time, many senior pastors were leaving the ministry to start their own churches, but I remained.

Q: Under him?

A: Yes, under him. There were more than 30 or 40 pastors around. Many of them were my seniors, and I was just one person in the hierarchy. But I kept serving.

In 2003, he officially made me a pastor and gave me the position of youth president in the church, even national youth president. In our ministry, the order is different. We do not use titles like reverend in the usual way. We move from pastor to evangelist through service and commitment, and then to general evangelist.

The church continued to grow, and he knew I was working hard. Later, he was supposed to hand the church over to me, but he had a biological child. Still, in December 2017, he officially promoted me to take over the house of God.

When that happened, I was happy, but I was also crying because I knew leading many people would bring many challenges. Even when you help people, some may betray you. The church is a place where betrayal can happen. Some people leave for different reasons. But God called me to serve, not to chase ownership.

I told my wife that we were made to serve, so she should not expect me to start my own church. She agreed that serving is good. I told him openly that God had told me to work under his servant.

Q: What did he say?

A: He already knew I was a prophet. After I was ordained in 2020, he made me a pastor that same year. He also said that God had shown him in a vision that I would lead one day. In 2016, God revealed it again, and people were already calling me bishop, but I just laughed. I knew God has His own time.

If I was not mature enough when God chose me, I would have rushed into things and maybe resigned as a reverend. But I prefer to hear from God and wait. My life is to serve Him.

When I came to Warri in 2008, I found that the man had no house. The first house I built for him was a five-bedroom duplex and a bungalow. When he retired in 2017, we started a new headquarters in 2018. I also built another five-bedroom duplex for him.

This year, we bought land in one of the most expensive areas here and spent almost 8 million to build a fully furnished three-bedroom bungalow for him. Only a man with a good heart would do that.

Many people come to me and say my kind is rare now. The man has retired, but he is not disabled or sick, and the church is still growing. I keep telling people that some are delivered through Christ, and we must always appreciate the foundation of Christ because He is everything.

People keep asking me when I will leave, but I am not leaving. It has been more than ten years and people are still asking the same question. Not everybody must leave; some people are born to serve, and I am one of them.

I told my wife that we deliberately stopped at three children so we could train them properly. God has given us shelter, and our children are already being trained. I do not want too much pressure on myself. I want to manage the people and serve God properly.

The church is not an investment. It is not something you build just to leave for your children like property. Many churches collapse when the leader leaves, and that is why church leadership must be handled carefully. I am opening branches, but I am still active in them. I am not just building and walking away.

I am born to serve the man, and I will serve him fully until the trumpet sounds. I will train my children, give them a good education, and teach them to stay focused and fear God.

Right now, I have also paused some scholarship plans because of the economy. I want the current students to finish first before we go further. Some of those we supported are already in school and doing well.

At the moment, we have over 22 children in primary school if you count all of them. Some are in JSS 1 and some in JSS 3. We also have about 14 in tertiary institutions, including students in Abraka, Rivers State University, and Enugu State University. About two to four may graduate this year.

For those doing master’s degrees, we support them rather than place them on full scholarship. Some of the support includes tuition help and transport money. They are members of the church, and some of them even helped start the UK branch of the ministry.

Q: We understand that you criticize government officials and challenge them.

A: If I criticize them, it is for development, not for personal reasons. I always tell the truth about development. From what I see, the state government is working. In many local governments, you can see the leaders working on roads and school maintenance. I cannot speak much about farming areas, but in the places I know, there is visible work being done.

Some older people in my community receive government support. My own mother is not on government payment, but some people around me are. So I support my mother from my family resources whenever needed. That is the reality.

My prayer is that the leaders should do even better if they return. If they ask me to vote again, I would vote again because the one you know is better than the one not yet known.

Warri is changing, and the place has improved. If someone who was poor yesterday becomes rich today, I would not doubt it because I can see the change with my own eyes.

Q: What do you think about the presidency?

A: I will tell you the truth. If people say Tinubu is not the best choice, I would still vote for Tinubu again. I believe southerners should complete eight years. Jonathan came and did not finish the full political arrangement people expected. Buhari completed his own eight years. Now Tinubu has come, and I believe he should be allowed to complete his own turn.

If a northerner wants to come later, they should wait for their turn and complete eight years too, unless a much better candidate comes out. I will still look carefully at any candidate before voting, but as things stand, I believe the south should finish its turn.

Some people are criticizing Tinubu, but I was one of those who supported him because he developed Lagos. I know he has not solved everything. We still do not have stable electricity, and people are suffering. Even buying solar for Aso Rock shows that people should not expect light everywhere in Nigeria yet.

He removed fuel subsidy, but only the government understands the full effect of that. Still, I would vote for him because I feel I have no better option right now. If there is light and stability, graduates can become self-employed and life can improve.

I also tell the church that many market women earn more than some teachers and even some school principals. Some traders handle millions of naira. Many government school teachers are also traders. So if someone wants to spend a lot of money trying to get a teaching job, that money may be wasted. It is better to go into business or farming. Farming takes patience; you do not plant and harvest on the same day. If you are patient, you can make it.

If you want to go into private business, no employee can be counted among the richest people in Nigeria; the richest people are usually entrepreneurs.

Q: Why do you support only your church members?

A: Not only my church members. For the master’s and university support, some of the people involved are Catholics, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and others. I do not help people because their parents are poor. I help from a willing heart. If God tells me to do something for someone, I do it. The one who sent me will provide for me. If I try to do it by my own strength, I may face financial problems. That is why I depend on God’s direction. I may say I will not do something, but if God tells me otherwise, I will obey.

I cannot say I have one million naira sitting somewhere, because when there is need, God provides.

Q: Thank you very much. We will not stress you too much. Just one more question, because I told you that you are a reporter’s delight and journalists would always want to interview you. I see a small church, but you are talking about big money. I do not see a large membership. How do you get your money?

A: Again, God is the source.

Q: Yes, I want my readers to hear that clearly.

A: God is the source. For example, when students graduate from the school or ministry and later get jobs in the oil sector, people ask who empowered them. They will bless me today just as I blessed them yesterday. I do not help people because I expect them to repay me. It is not a trade-by-barter situation. I help someone to establish a business, and God makes it grow.

One day, a lady came to me and said I gave her 10,000 naira and blessed it. She said that money became the start of her first one million. Another lady reminded me that I gave her 30,000 naira to trade. I had forgotten because I do not keep such things in my mind. She told me that from that 30,000 naira she now has three properties, including land. That is how it grew.

I was not lazy. I worked. In 2009, God told me to resign from my job and go into full-time ministry. I was working in an oil service company and earning well. In 2008, God told me to resign and serve Him full time, but I struggled with it. I told my boss that God had asked me to leave. He asked me how much I earned as a pastor, and I said 15,000 naira. He asked how I would survive and feed my family on that amount. He was telling the truth.

I pleaded with him, but he would not let me go. Then in April 2009, I met him again after devotion. I told him that from the time I submitted my resignation the previous April until then, his business had been going down even though we were praying. I asked him to let me go.

Q: This was like Moses and Pharaoh.

A: Whether we survive or not, that calling is my source. I told him yes, but I said in three months he would see what God would do. And truly, by June, after I left in late April or May, supplies opened up for the company. Dollar deals came in batches, and the company changed. He even bought a boat worth 50 million naira after the contract was paid. Later in August, he called me for a send-off and gave me gifts, but he did not give me cash. I believe God led him not to give me cash so that I would depend on God alone.

From 2009 until now, I have not had another job. I am in full-time ministry. I have thought about starting a business, but whenever I try, my spirit troubles me. I feel it is not my calling. Some pastors must work, but I believe God has called me.

So if you ask how I get money, I will say again: God is the source. If I have blessed your life and today God has blessed you, would you still need to support me?

Q: I would definitely.

A: Then God is the source. Thank you.

Q: What key theological teaching did you study in that institution, from what you are saying now?

A: The archbishop is a man of wisdom. Nobody works with him and fails — that is the truth. He is disciplined. He is a prophet, but also a man of wisdom. If you want to leave well, stay under him and you will leave well. Good counsel makes you succeed.

I stayed in his service for 21 years. He gave me wise counsel, like telling me not to beat a woman because she is like a child. That advice was given 21 years ago when I married, and it still works today.

My first child graduated last year. When she was 16, she studied at Faith Academy, Oyedepo’s school. On the graduation brochure, she wrote her role model as her dad. I was shocked because I did not expect that. I thought she might have been influenced by the school, but she said, “Daddy, at 16 I have seen how you live, I hear people talk, and I know you are a good man.”

At her graduation, I went to see her head of department, and he asked if I was the bishop and said my daughter had made a powerful statement. He told me that all the students were asked about their parents, and what my daughter said about me shocked him. He said, “Please, this year, your daughter loves you.” He also told me, “From what I have heard about you, you are God’s man.”

That is why I say the counsel from the archbishop shaped my life. Two people have strongly affected my life: the archbishop and my wife. My wife is a troublesome person and a fighting woman, but no bishop can settle her, not even the archbishop. But the truth is that a man who cannot control his home cannot control the church.

Q: So you said you wanted to serve God when you were young.

A: Yes.

Q: What motivated you?

A: I came from a family that worshipped idols. My first generation were idol worshippers.

Q: Where are you from, sir?

A: I am from Olomo South.

Q: Which family is that?

A: I am from the Obiogo family in Efuture from the south. My father was a local community leader. He served the deity that our family had been serving for generations. So there was no Christian privilege in my family.

When I saw my father doing that, and I read in the Bible that the earth is the Lord’s and everything in it belongs to Him, I began to ask myself: if my father is serving a deity, what benefit is there? Why don’t we focus on this God our family has ignored for years? That was the passion that made me say, “God, use me.”

My father converted before he died, and since that day, no one in my family has served that deity again. It has ended.

Q: Is that courtesy?

A: What happened is that God used me to change the family order. My father was not supposed to see his last-born child as a king, because two kings cannot live at the same time. That caused a crisis in the community. They said the eldest child of the founder was the one who should serve that position.

While the crisis was going on, I told my father that nobody would serve that idol again because God had chosen me. My father was still alive, and I told him, “God has chosen me, so you cannot give birth to another king. Stop it.” He would always shout at me, but he knew I had the call of God on my life.

When the argument came up, there was a lawyer involved too. His name was Arogbo. At that time, people did not know that the same boy they were judging would one day become a pastor. That case was thrown out in 1995. I told my father he would win the case and that they should go and serve their own father if that was what they wanted.

Later, the community started having more trouble and even killings. Then the other family began to beg my father to take the position. Because of all that, my father could no longer continue in it. So he saw his last-born child before he died, and I converted him before his death. The children I dedicated were all aware that my father had converted before he died.

My mother also served an idol called Ibuze before, but she later converted too and is now a deaconess in the church. I told God that if He allowed me to serve Him, my whole family would be converted. My grandmother also converted before she died at the age of 102. So today, my whole family has been delivered.

In 1975, when my father came from Lagos, there was a big disagreement again. They said a king had come to take over the throne, and 16 gunshots were fired. At one point, this ministry even helped a boy by paying 50,000 so he would not be taken to the station, because if he had been taken there, they would have demanded 200,000.

If I am not popular in my community, thank you, sir. God bless you.

Q: It is a pleasure, sir. Thank you very much. I will not disturb you too much. Are there any specific miracles in your ministry that we should know about?

A: As for miracles, the archbishop is a man of God. God called him at the age of 8, and he never left the calling. He began ministry when he was 8 years old. God also told him to go into farming, so he never treated church like a do-or-die matter. He spent time on his farm, and he became one of the best farmers in the southwest. If you check newspapers in Warri or Asaba, you can find reports about his farming success.

I witnessed a miracle of a woman who had been barren for 18 years. She came to the archbishop, and he prayed for her womb. The following year, she returned with a baby boy. We have seen many miracles through him.

There was also a pawpaw tree on his farm that was barren and not producing fruit. One day, he heard God say the pawpaw should bear fruit. He prayed over it and asked someone to touch it and declare, “Be fruitful.” Within three days, flowers started coming out, and the tree began to bear fruit.

After that, he asked God what it meant. God told him that everyone who ate from that pawpaw would conceive. And that really happened. During youth thanksgiving, people ate from that pawpaw, and many barren women later became fruitful. So I have seen that God works in mysterious ways; it is not magic.

I have also seen many sick people healed through that man.

As for me, in 2015 I went to the mountain at Ekiti Babalola. I told God that unless He empowered me, I would not continue, because the assignment I had been given was a powerful one. People may call me pastor and say I can pray, but now that I am bishop, if I pray and nothing happens, someone may say even the bishop prayed and nothing changed. I needed grace.

So I went to Isheko mountain and told God I would not leave until the archbishop called me. I was already tired from fasting, and on the fifth day, while I was lying down, the archbishop called me from the farm. He asked where I was, and I said I was on the mountain. He said God told him to pray for me. I told him that if he did not pray for me, I would die.

So yes, the miracles are many and they happen through God’s power and manifestation. Even HIV has been cured here, not once or twice. Some people came with HIV test results, and later the result became negative.

Q: Do you have the video clip?

A: My media team can help you with that. We have seen many testimonies. We have seen several cases of cancer healed. There was a man who had tuberculosis for many years. Medication had become very expensive, but after about six months, he was healed. He later told another man who had been suffering from tuberculosis for over fifteen years, and that man was also healed.

So what I am saying is that there are many miracles, and my media team has recorded many of those testimonies.

There was also a case of a woman whose baby had died in the womb. She had gone for several scans, and the doctors said the pregnancy should be removed. She came here crying because she had been waiting for this baby for a long time. She said she wanted to leave with her baby alive. I laid hands on her womb and prayed. I said, “Let God be God.” When she went back to the hospital, the scan showed the baby had been dead before, but later the baby was brought forth alive. She later came to the altar during January thanksgiving.

There was another case last November. A woman’s baby had not passed stool for four days, and the child’s stomach had become swollen. The baby was referred to a teaching hospital. At the hospital, a nurse told her to come to our church. She came, and I prayed with her. I even carried the baby to confirm what she was saying. After prayer, before she got home, the baby’s cloth was full of stool. The child was healed, and she did not need to go for the hospital procedure.

There was also a woman who had been trusting God for a baby. She attended different programs, and people from many churches came here, including Anglicans and Jehovah’s Witnesses. She later became pregnant, but doctors said it was an ectopic pregnancy and that surgery was needed. She and her husband refused the operation and came here crying after waiting for ten years.

I laid my hands on her womb and prayed. I told her to go, and the pain stopped. She still left with some pain, but when she got home, the pain had gone. After one day, two days, one month, and two months, the pregnancy continued to grow. She later went back for a scan, and the baby was found to be in the womb. That was how the child was born.

I also know of one of our daughters who is married to one of the deacons. After her first child, she could not conceive again. The doctors said there was a growth and that she could only conceive if she had surgery. They brought the report to me, and I tore it up in front of them. I told them to go, and they left. The doctor was angry, but the next month she conceived.

When it was time to deliver, the doctors said the growth was still there and that the baby could not come out unless she had an operation. She was booked for surgery, but the mother-in-law, who is a deacon, called me. I spoke to them and asked them to give the phone to the doctor. I told the doctor to give me 25 minutes to pray.

The doctor was angry and said that was how people misbehaved. But 22 minutes later, the baby came out without any operation. After that, the woman went on to have more children without surgery.

So yes, there are miracles. But there are also times when people are still sick, because God is the one who heals. I pray for healing, but I also know that sometimes prayer does not remove everything immediately. I still take medicine when I need it.

If someone has HIV, I would tell them to go to the hospital and collect their free medicine until the day God heals them.

There was also a woman whose husband worked in road safety. He had an accident, and during the tests they found that he was HIV positive. The wife called me many times crying and saying it was impossible. I prayed and told them to test again. When they did the tests again, it became negative. That man later joined this church. He is now a senior road safety officer in the western part of Nigeria. He shared his testimony himself.

I also know a woman who came to me from a Baptist church after a crusade. She is a nurse. She said she got the sickness through carelessness while caring for people. I prayed with her, and she brought a positive result. I asked her to test again, and on Friday she shared her testimony.

After that, her siblings, mother, and father also came to this church from the Baptist church. Nobody forced them; they came on their own.

We have seen many people go to the hospital and come out healed and safe. We do not serve God for what we want, but for who He is. We do not serve God because we are jobless and need something to do. That is why there are many fake pastors everywhere. If God did not call you, then it is hunger that pushed you into ministry, and that is why some churches are full of crisis. People are only trying to survive.

So if you ask me for advice, I would say: let us leave judgment to God and just do our best.

Q: Lastly, sir, how do you feel about being given a special recognition award?

A: I have told you, I do not even know what I have done. People who truly deserve it should be the ones receiving awards. I have not done anything special, except that maybe people judge me by my words. If not, I do not think I have done anything worthy of such recognition.

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